9 comments

  • grokys 29 minutes ago
    And then people complain about "bait and switch " or "pulling the rug" when an OSS project becomes successful and tries to fund itself in some way. "But that should be free" shouts everyone. I'm increasingly coming around to the idea that OSS was the biggest swindle the corporations managed to pull off.
    • acoustics 5 minutes ago
      I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mind at all when an open source project switches licenses or whatever. They gave away the fruit of their labor, but I am not entitled to any more of it.

      What does bother me is when the projects pivot to claiming that users now have a moral obligation to financially support the project. There is a kind of dishonesty in this move.

      It's not that a successful project "should be free", it's that its success depended on it being free. If they had said all along that they'd eventually ask users to pay, that would be honest... but then they wouldn't have seen much of that adoption in the first place.

      • grokys 2 minutes ago
        In my case, I never intended on my open source project becoming popular, it just did and I had to either abandon it or make it my job. I'm not sure where that falls in your judgement.

        I suspect this is also the case for PHP though.

    • anonymous908213 16 minutes ago
      I've been shouting this from the rooftops for ages now. OSS is a trojan horse, something meant to devalue the work of independent developers/small businesses and ensure that the only way the software can be supported is through the patronage of big tech, who earn the money to control such OSS through their unethical monopolistic practices. Look at the languages with funding, and where it comes from. C and C++ (both LLVM and GCC), C#, JS/TS, Java, Rust, Go, Python are all directly funded by big tech. The naive idealism results in everything falling into the hands of ~10 corporations plus some VCs who gamble on which ones will become worth acquiring by big tech, and then we wonder why everything goes to shit and our entire ecosystem is so user-hostile.
      • grokys 4 minutes ago
        And the indoctrination is so strong that even after all I've lived through and seen, my default is still "let's open source this".
  • bwoebi 1 hour ago
    The actual work expenses of the PHP foundation can be viewed here:

    https://opencollective.com/phpfoundation/transactions?search... and https://opencollective.com/php-foundation-eur/transactions?s...

    (seems like "work" selects most of that)

    And it's not cheap to pay that many people, especially not full time (which is partly why they don't have more full-time contractors). According to https://opencollective.com/phpfoundation#category-BUDGET they only have a balance $350k currently, sinking.

    It'd be really awesome, if more companies would sponsor the PHP foundation (especially with thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per year. A lot of small contributions is nice, but not enough.). The work of a few core maintainers is really crucial to the continued development of PHP.

    • gchamonlive 29 minutes ago
      There are countless applications out there still running on PHP, but if the community interest can't raise the required resources to maintain the tool, maybe it's time for it to die, or at least downgrade into maintenance mode so in time it'll become a legacy language.
      • londons_explore 2 minutes ago
        If they asked harder for donations, they would surely raise enough for maintenance.

        Plenty of companies can donate 0.1 engineers to work on php, if for no other reason than to make php better for their own use cases.

  • sam_lowry_ 1 hour ago
    She says the full-time member is herself, and looking at her Linkedin (in/elizabethn) she isn't exactly the person who would patch PHP for the two CVEs.
    • londons_explore 1 minute ago
      Presumably that's why there are also lots of part time contractors.
  • abroszka33 16 minutes ago
    Not surprising at all. There are no incentives for anyone to contribute. And why would there be in this financial system?
  • lwansbrough 1 hour ago
    Just hold a public yes/no vote on changing licensing to something paid, and charge $10 to vote no.
    • IshKebab 28 minutes ago
      I imagine that would go down well and result in zero forks...
      • YetAnotherNick 4 minutes ago
        So you think those forks will solve underfunding problem?
      • lwansbrough 14 minutes ago
        Awesome dude let the scabs work for free lol
  • dingdingdang 1 hour ago
    Come on Facebook/Zuckerberg, set them up with a structured fund that is invested in s&p500 or something equivalent/better and allows them to pay a handful of devs and a person to admin them (all surplus can be earmarked to go to charity to avoid the sinkhole of bureaucracy from a larger org). Would set the PHP Foundation up for life and the whole world would be better off as a result, smallish directed investment with huge payout from a value perspective.
  • Hamuko 1 hour ago
    The solution is obvious: pour trillions of dollars into Anthropic and OpenAI, and security will trickle down.
  • pmlnr 1 hour ago
    xkcd 2347 again, what a surprise. Oh, wait, there's at least one paid person, that should be something /s
  • smashers1114 1 hour ago
    Presumably it makes sense to sunset PHP especially with how cheap code migrations are nowadays.
    • anonymous908213 44 minutes ago
      Beating the dead horse, as you are: the Bun Rust migration cost millions of dollars in tokens and took an additional 3.5 months of labor after the widely-marketed "11-day rewrite" before being shipped as a release, and in the process introduced hundreds of new issues.
    • jmull 48 minutes ago
      What's easier, maintaining PHP or migrating/breaking every single PHP-based site?

      And who's to say whatever sites are migrated to won't be "sunsetted" in a few decades too?

      Seems like a no-brainer to maintain it.

    • whatthejesus 50 minutes ago
      Sounds like you’ve been snorting too much iron oxide.
    • glimshe 59 minutes ago
      How cheap are code migrations nowadays? Vibe-migrations, you mean?
    • thinkindie 26 minutes ago
      migrating to what? just take a look at the newest CVEs, https://www.tenable.com/cve/newest , and you will see that no technology is spared by high or critical reports.