Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

(youtube.com)

41 points | by Semkas 2 days ago

3 comments

  • pcrh 2 hours ago
    There's a risk of echos of Theranos here. A paper apparently describing this ultrasound approach has been uploaded to arXiv [0]. If so, the resolution demonstrated is nowhere near sufficient to detect small changes to anatomy, let alone monitor them over time. Future developments could obviously improve on that.

    [0] “Whole Cross-Sectional Human Ultrasound Tomography” https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.00110

    • KaiserPro 17 minutes ago
      I have a similar feeling.

      One the one hand its great that they are spending the time and money to do this, on the other hand I am _very_ suspicious of their motives.

      Getting _a_ picture is not that difficult, getting an accurate, repeatable, high resolution picture is a lot harder, and state of the art.

      my worry is two fold:

      1) over promise and causing injury to desperate people who see smudges on scans and have invasive surgery only to find out that its a reflection/artefact

      2) what are they doing with the data they collect, and how will it be used to make money.

      I think the main issue is that there are "no good startups" any more. As soon as an innovation happens that might be worth something, your original CEO is replaced by someone driven entirely by money, rather than public good. Or they get bought out by a corp that only cares about maintaining a monopoly.

    • warpdude 2 hours ago
      one of the lead paper authors (jinhua xu) works at midjourney, appears in the video, and comments specifically on how the midjourney approach is the next, significantly better-funded iteration of the paper approach
      • _joel 49 minutes ago
        If you watch the video, the original prototype had hand built piezoelectic array, which was a complete pain and nowhere near as good as the current revision. This one uses COTS hardware, just lots (40+) of them.
      • itake 1 hour ago
        true, but he doesn't say if it will meet the threshold of 'useful'
    • IshKebab 30 minutes ago
      This definitely isn't another Theranos. Theranos claimed to have a blood test that didn't actually exist. This is "just" standard ultrasound but with a much wider aperture than normal. There's no new science, it's just engineering that nobody else has put the effort in to actually do.
    • moralestapia 45 minutes ago
      There's one GIGANTIC difference between Midjourney and Theranos.

      Midjourney's money is their own. They don't have to lick anyone's boots (or worse) just to put bread on the table.

      Don't ever confuse actual innovators with low-tier VC scammers. Because of that, I'm massively bullish on them.

  • Fraterkes 39 minutes ago
    One thing that’s kinda awkward in the video: they mention one of the big shortcomings of ultrasound being that it can’t image “airy” organs like the lungs, and their expert responds to that by mentioning that the amount of angles/devices means that you still get imaging of everything surrounding the lungs.

    But the critiscism isn’t that the lungs would obstruct you from imaging certain areas, it’s that there’s just very salient parts of the body that you can’t really image with ultrasound, which means this would not be a full bodyscan even if the resolution was incredible.

    I think there’s some genuine intent here, if for no other reason than that it seems silly to transition from ai to hardware if you’re purely trying to grift. I just wish they responded candidly to the obvious questions people have.

    • 21asdffdsa12 8 minutes ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing ? So totally solveable

      I dont understand though, why you have to simultanously do this from all sides- have the ultrasound swim around with the patient? Takes out the comlexity?

      Or use boundary layers to keep the sound on the slice?

    • IshKebab 32 minutes ago
      Not being able to image inside the lungs is probably only a minor limitation really. There's also inside the head, and inside the rib cage is going to be awkward too due to bones.

      Also ultrasound just isn't that good of an imaging technology, even with full aperture.

      That said, it's non-ionising and if they can make this reasonably cheap (big if), then it's better than nothing at all. Probably decent for finding cancer, especially breast cancer (no pesky bones there!).

      • KaiserPro 22 minutes ago
        > it's non-ionising

        True, but ultrasound isn't entirely benign. Depending on what frequency and what power it can crack solid parts of the body (its used to break up kidney/gall stones) it also can heat things up (which is, assuming my understanding is correct, why doppler scans for blood flow are not done on <18 week pregancy)

        • jkahrs595 15 minutes ago
          lasers can cut steel, so barcode scanners aren’t entirely benign
  • bparsons 2 hours ago
    Does this whole thing seem fishy to anyone else?
    • jona-f 0 minutes ago
      silicon valley startup caricature in the style of a youtube influencer, glossy, moving picture, edgy, narcissistic, hyperunrealistic
    • _joel 51 minutes ago
      More dolphin-y than fishy, it's ultrasound after all :)
    • ajrouvoet 1 hour ago
      The announcement video has some quality that made it hard to shake the feeling that I’m watching a black mirror episode. Or a sequel to Ex Machina.
    • AyyEye 45 minutes ago
      They hallucinate images for a living, of course making a medical imager is fishy (to put it extremely nicely).