The Vatican's Website in Latin

(vatican.va)

61 points | by ks2048 2 hours ago

12 comments

  • Jakob 2 minutes ago
    My partner and I are from two different European countries that speak different languages.

    When we wanted to marry in the country of my partner, both our (catholic) churches needed to sync. They did so in their common language: Latin.

    That was a fun surprise.

  • efskap 1 hour ago
    If anyone is interested in learning it, there's nothing better than Ørberg's Lingua Latina per se Illustrata. It's entirely in Latin, including grammar explanations, but it starts out incredibly simple and ramps up gradually with lots of repetition. And that's fun AND effective, since you're immersed rather than grinding tables.
    • tolerance 49 minutes ago
      "Grinding tables" might be the most accurate description of my language-learning experience that I've come across.
    • daemonologist 16 minutes ago
      We quoted that book for years (probably because the accompanying audio version had a somewhat amusing cadence, but I do also think it was a lot more beneficial to learning than trudging through classical texts with a dictionary).
    • mcookly 1 hour ago
      Thanks for sharing this! My wife and I have been interested in refreshing our Latin from high school, and we've been looking for good resources.

      We've also toyed with the idea of learning it as a living language, which seems to be an increasingly-popular method among autodidacts these days.

      • kevin_thibedeau 58 minutes ago
        Duolingo has a Latin course.
        • morcus 27 minutes ago
          Duolingo has a tenth of a Latin course.

          Source: I did the whole thing before I learned Latin from a different course. Duolingo's is unfinished.

    • erelong 34 minutes ago
      I've seen Scanlon's Latin which was written I think to help people pray the Divine Office in latin
  • DavidSJ 17 minutes ago
  • ks2048 11 minutes ago
    They have 10 languages linked from their home page (https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html).

    Latin and Chinese are the only two that don't have the home page same design. Maybe they've laid-off some of their translators.

  • zdragnar 1 hour ago
    I'm somewhat surprised it's still up, given the rather firm refusal by Francis to allow the Latin mass at churches that wanted it in the States.
    • wahern 1 hour ago
      The term "Latin mass" confuses two distinct aspects. Colloquially it refers to celebrating the Tridentine Mass in Latin. But the Tridentine Mass was already celebrated in the vernacular years before Vatican II, though it was optional and I don't know how widespread it was. The Vatican II reformed mass was expected to use the vernacular in most parts, but it can also be given in Latin, and Latin is the canonical form against which translations are made.

      I've been to a Latin mass a couple of times, specifically a sung (aka high) Latin mass. I see why so many people prefer it. But the Novus Ordo can also be sung. Latin masses also tend to use incense, etc, which also used to be more common in the Norvus Ordo. The real division is between parishes and priests with the energy to put into the mass, versus those that fall into the habit of doing the bare minimum. The "Latin mass" just happens to be a convenient mechanism that bifurcates the two groups.

      Relatedly, I read a argument somewhere that the current state can be traced back to the proliferation of Irish priests. In Ireland the low (unsung) Latin mass had apparently been for centuries the predominate form even on Sundays. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but reading various sources it does seem that in various parts of the world the sung mass had already been in a long decline at least since the 1800s. And I think the Norvus Ordo was intended to simplify things in the hopes of reviving the energy in the mass, but instead it just created a lower floor.

      • mcookly 55 minutes ago
        I've heard the same re. the Irish.

        Regarding the Novus Ordo, I believe that the key document from Vatican II (Sacrosanctum Concilium) still preferred Latin as the dominant language in liturgy, while readings etc. stayed in the vernacular, but clearly that is not what happened.

        There's been an uptick in numbers for Tridentine Rite, so tides might shift back as Catholics realize the wealth of their liturgical tradition.

    • b00ty4breakfast 9 minutes ago
      Latin is still the official language of the Catholic Church. The meaning of words in dead dead language like Latin don't change much and so a document written in Latin is likely to be easily understood in 4-500 years (for people who can read Latin) and used for translations into the local vernacular. Whereas a language like English is constantly evolving and so the version of some words in, for a relevant example, the original King James Bible, do not mean the same thing in modern English that they did in the early 17th century.

      The hulabaloo about the Latin or so-called Tridentine Mass is a cultural issue that is mostly about shifting societal norms and only incidentally about it's being in Latin. This is evidenced by the fact that the current form of the Mass, the Novus Ordo, is written in Latin then translated into the vernacular, and it can still be validly performed in Latin without special dispensation from the Vatican.

    • edflsafoiewq 1 hour ago
      That isn't because of a general opposition to all uses of Latin.
    • stephenhuey 1 hour ago
      He had specific reasons for not wanting it in mass:

      https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/07/19/latin-mass-...

    • bombcar 1 hour ago
      The official version of that document is in ... Latin.
    • reaperducer 1 hour ago
      I'm somewhat surprised it's still up, given the rather firm refusal by Francis to allow the Latin mass at churches that wanted it in the States.

      Maybe because a web site isn't holy Mass?

  • ks2048 14 minutes ago
    I don't see in lang="la" in their HTML. (Not surprising, with this old-looking design).
  • jdw64 1 hour ago
    I used to think the Vatican would be old-fashioned, but the writing on its site is more readable than I expected. In particular, while reading the section “Development: Humanism and Posthumanism,” I found it interesting to compare the religious worldview of the West with my own more humanistic worldview.

    This passage especially stood out to me:

    > At the application level, AI in the strict sense raises questions about the reliability of data and the criteria by which programmers process it so as to make it available. It is unclear what biases or power systems influence the work. In particular, serious doubts arise regarding automated, AI-based decision-making processes in sensitive areas of human life: when deciding whether to provide medical care or grant loans or mortgages or insurance, or when prosecuting criminal cases in court or assessing the conduct of prisoners and the likelihood of reoffending with a view to reducing sentences, or when deciding on military attacks or law enforcement interventions.

    It is funny because this almost feels like a complete summary of recent Hacker News debates in a single paragraph.

    • jquinby 1 hour ago
      There is an AI working group in one of the dicasteries that has produced two excellent publications:

      Encountering Artificial Intelligence (https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/91230-encountering-art...)

      Reclaiming Human Agency in the Age of Artificial Intelligence (https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/154545-reclaiming-huma...)

      • jdw64 1 hour ago
        I think I will read this while running my agents in parallel. Thank you, my friend.

        The writing is genuinely excellent.

        In tech communities, we often talk about how many times productivity will increase, or whether AI has consciousness. But in religious documents, the focus is often on how the problems of the vulnerable and the community will change.

        That is interesting to me. The worldview is Western and religious, so it feels somewhat unfamiliar, but at the same time, it seems useful as a way to rediscover values that we may have forgotten.

    • reaperducer 1 hour ago
      People love to wallow in the stereotype that the Catholic Church is old fashioned and anti-science. That's mostly propaganda leftover from 300 years ago.

      Catholic nuns were instrumental in the development of computers. A Catholic priest is fundamental to the Big Bang Theory†. Dozens of craters on the moon were named by and for Catholic clergy who discovered them.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

  • nullhole 17 minutes ago
    Well at least the spelled 'appendix' correctly
  • dlt713705 1 hour ago
    How do you say "Click here" in Latin ?
    • schoen 15 minutes ago
      Google Translate suggested "preme hic" which is plausible to me (I've spent a lot of time with Latin but haven't thought of this particular question before). It literally means "press here".
    • ks2048 16 minutes ago
      According to google, "preme hic". ("press here")
    • s20n 18 minutes ago
      Clickus Hereus
      • gedy 2 minutes ago
        Bigus Clickus
    • Svoka 1 hour ago
      probably same as "press here"
  • mrKola 1 hour ago
    It has to be there for the aliens.
  • user3939382 1 hour ago
    I caught a bishop committing felonies, reported it to the Vatican. It resulted in 12 years of kangaroo court litigation in their analog of a justice system and no action or consequences despite incontrovertible forensic evidence. We got a PBS documentary instead, great. Absolute disgrace of an institution.
  • atleastoptimal 1 hour ago
    lorem ipsum
    • dlt713705 1 hour ago
      How do you say "click here" in Latin ?