10 comments

  • sigmar 48 minutes ago
    >We contend that the amount of time remaining before the arrival of CRQCs still exceeds the amount of time needed to migrate public blockchains to PQC, though the margin for error is increasingly narrow. Therefore, we have offered updated resource estimates for quantum attacks on blockchain cryptography together with an analysis of vulnerabilities and mitigations in order to urge all vulnerable cryptocurrency communities to begin PQC transition immediately while its timely completion is still the likely prospect.

    they really couldn't be shouting "mitigate now or never" any louder. I'm curious how they arrived at the efficiency improvements, but perhaps any mention of that would be similar to releasing the circuit.

  • quuxplusone 1 hour ago
    Top comment on LWN is a very interesting read (although neither the commenter nor myself claim any such trickery was involved in this case).

    > Trail of Bits were able to craft an input that beats Google's circuit and prove it... by virtue of a bug in the verifier: https://blog.trailofbits.com/2026/04/17/we-beat-googles-zero... Google patched the vuln and the original proof still stands, but this is a pretty strange path we seem to be walking down [...]

  • upofadown 46 minutes ago
    Checking the required hardware noise performance:

    >On superconducting architectures with 10−3 physical error rates...

    So still 1-2 orders of magnitude better than what we can achieve.

    This is against a 256 bit elliptic curve. For some reason most people are stating the difficulty of using Shor's against 2048 bit RSA. Elliptic curves are easier to break with Shor's. I wonder how much of the optimization came from that fact alone...

  • loglog 3 hours ago
    How is it possible to provide a zero knowledge proof that their circuit works for large problem instances if there is no efficient way to run or simulate the circuit with the required instance size?
  • smj-edison 10 hours ago
    Wait, the article mentions that Shor's algorithm is factoring (which is what I understood), but then it's talking about elliptic curve cryptography? I thought ECC didn't use the same mathematical foundations of RSA, and RSA has been slowly phased out anyways...
    • lima 9 hours ago
      Shor published multiple quantum algorithms, including one for discrete logarithms. The term is sometimes used interchangeably.

      They're closely related, ECC and RSA are both instances of the hidden subgroup problem.

    • bjoli 9 hours ago
      Quite the contrary. Shor's algorithm actually works better for the shorter keys of ECC. The rule of thumb is 2n qbits for RSA keys and 6n qbits for ecc. I believe it has something to do with hownit applies to the hidden subgroup problem of finite abelian groups rather than factorisation, but I am really not a cryptographer not especially mathsy. I just asked the same question you did, and someone in the know pointed me to that.
    • raverbashing 9 hours ago
      > I thought ECC didn't use the same mathematical foundations of RSA

      It kinda does, it just uses them differently

      The basis here is the discrete inverse logarithm in a specific group (elliptic curves over rationals or multiplicative group module n)

  • Genbox 2 days ago
    Publishing a zero knowledge proof rather than the solution is pretty clever.
    • adrian_b 7 hours ago
      This has been used for centuries. It is not a new invention.

      Hundreds of years ago, it was not unusual to publish an encrypted solution of some mathematical problem, in order to establish priority without disclosing the algorithm that was used.

      Of course, at that time very simple encryption methods were used, for instance an anagram of the solution was published (i.e. encryption by letter transposition).

    • coherentpony 12 hours ago
      Is it? Nobody else can really build on their work.
      • riffraff 12 hours ago
        AIU the intent of this publication is not to further research but to make it clear to anyone that we need to move to post quantum cryptography ASAP.
        • rwmj 6 hours ago
          But the algorithm still isn't practical on existing quantum computers, or ones that are going to be around any time soon, so there's no reason not to publish in full.
        • QuaternionsBhop 11 hours ago
          If only AI safety research had a mechanism this clear. "We have proof that building the machine will kill everybody, so get to work making a provably safe version."
          • AnthonyMouse 7 hours ago
            "AI safety" is essentially incoherent. It's like trying to build an all-purpose chemistry lab that can't produce explosives.
            • cubefox 7 hours ago
              Neat, an ontological argument against AI safety. Similar argument:

              "God doesn't exist" is essentially incoherent. God is the perfect being, and if he didn't exist, he wouldn't be perfect.

              I think the logical mistake is obvious.

              • AnthonyMouse 6 hours ago
                Except that you have the logic backwards. It's an argument that something ("safe" general purpose AI) can't exist rather than that it has to.

                People want AI to be able to do every good thing but no bad thing, which is impossible twice. First because false positives and false negatives trade against each other, so a general purpose AI which can do anything approximating all the good things is going to have the bias leaning heavily towards being able to do things in general and therefore being able to do many things that are bad. And second because "good" and "bad" aren't things that anybody can agree on and then some people will demand that it must do X while others demand that it not do X (e.g. "help the rebels win the war"), which means someone is inherently going to be unsatisfied and it's not a thing that can be sensibly regarded as everyone working towards a common goal.

                • cwillu 6 hours ago
                  You've made a great argument for calling a general halt to AI development, but I'm not sure that was your intent.
        • mikelitoris 6 hours ago
          Could be one of the intents, but the main intent is reputation building.
        • adastra22 7 hours ago
          That may be the intent, but it is very anti-science.
        • LtWorf 1 hour ago
          Wake me up when there's an actual working machine.
  • cubefox 10 hours ago
    > If the paper's authors had chosen to release their circuit, they would certainly have been recognized for the important progress they made in the science of quantum computing. Other researchers would have gone on to build on their work, and the entire scientific community would be richer for it.

    ... and the world could well have been unsafer. There is pretty strong reason not to release insights which could be used as an attack on public key cryptography. We already know the fix anyway, post quantum cryptography algorithms.

    Sometimes scientific curiosity has to step back when it comes to potentially dangerous research. Scott Aaronson recently [1] compared this case to when scientists stopped publishing on nuclear fission research because the possibility of developing an atomic bomb became concrete:

    > When I got an early heads-up about these results—especially the Google team’s choice to “publish” via a zero-knowledge proof—I thought of Frisch and Peierls, calculating how much U-235 was needed for a chain reaction in 1940, but not publishing it, even though the latest results on nuclear fission had been openly published just the year prior.

    1: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=9665

    • xtracto 2 hours ago
      They are not doing Science, they are just bragging.
    • free_bip 10 hours ago
      Oh please, the government could easily force them to hand over their research. This is not a serious argument.
      • ziofill 9 hours ago
        Would it be really so straightforward for the government to do that?
        • throawayonthe 8 hours ago
          i doubt they don't have access already
          • brookst 2 hours ago
            Plenty of people doubt evolution.

            Doubt without evidence is just noise.

  • raymondchau 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • fguerraz 9 hours ago
    However, the author managed to squeeze the word "however" eleven times in this article, however.
    • dahart 1 hour ago
      Never twice in one sentence like you did, and there are 13 “but”s. Is something wrong with using ‘however’? If so, what exactly?
    • flimflamm 8 hours ago
      However, there was only 57 however's in the paper it self.
      • paulnpace 4 hours ago
        > A new paper provides a major step in that direction, however.

        It may have gone unnoticed if used only used once in the article, however.

  • SimbiotAi111 9 hours ago
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